Transcript Of A Talk

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name,
there am I in the midst of them." ~ Matthew 18:20

Melissa Hannay Saulnier

we were talking about animals...

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Stephen Valus

yeah, they're all so neat

all holy

unimaginable creations

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Melissa Hannay Saulnier

well, Someone imagined them...

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Stephen Valus

i was reading this esoteric book*

and it was saying that the parable of the prodigal son is also an allegory of the soul's descent into the cycle of incarnations and then it's return to God...

The soul returns with self-awareness... it knows what it has

remember the t.s. eliot quote?

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Melissa Hannay Saulnier

That makes sense...

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Stephen Valus

"[The end of our journey shall be to arrive at the place where we began and to know it for the first time.]"

yeah.. remember the parable

the other brother

who is always with him

but it is right that we should celebrate.. your brother was dead and is alive again.. the killing of the fatted calf supposedly symbolizes the relinquishing of the physical body

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Melissa Hannay Saulnier

ok, makes sense...

I'm with you...

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Stephen Valus

this is why the calf could not be killed for the brother who never incarnated

he never had a body to relinquish... and because he never knew evil, he never knew good

he was good without knowing

innocent

but not wise

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Melissa Hannay Saulnier

So we cant be innocent and wise...?

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Melissa Hannay Saulnier

I guess that would make sense too...

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Stephen Valus

nor did he know himself as a soul distinct from the Father

innocent can be used in various ways

for the present purposes, yes, they are mutually exclusive

When the prodigal son says "Even the servants in my father's house have enough to eat."

He is talking about the angels

but he himself is a child of God

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Melissa Hannay Saulnier

That makes sense because the Father doesn't know any earthly experience except through Jesus...

He only experienced it through a human form

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Stephen Valus

Yes... God.. The Unmanifest.. Manifested Itself/Himself in Christ... but Christ is the first-fruits.. the prototype of us all..Jesus said, when they asked him about his claim to be the son of god, "does it not say in your scripture, 'ye are all gods'?"

we are all christ

we are the christ child

we are not yet grown to full maturity

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Stephen Valus

Jesus was the Christ, because the One True Spirit of God was able to manifest through him.. but anyone who truly receives Jesus becomes the Christ; dies to himself or herself, and is born again in Spirit. Then the One True Spirit speaks through them as well. Was Francis in any way inferior to Jesus? Yet Jesus was chosen of the Father to play a pivotal role, and to reflect his light more directly than the others, but he was just a mirror like the others. He is well placed. His calling was higher than any other. But this was due to the grace of God the Father which was in him. Jesus told us that he came in the Father's name, not in his own. But many accept him in his own name, without understanding.

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Melissa Hannay Saulnier

somewhat...

I'm not sure if I buy that completely...

I cant raise the dead, or heal the sick

and I dont expect to resurrect...

the way Jesus did

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Stephen Valus

you cannot do those things because you have not given yourself to God... George Fox could do those things. Paul could do them. Christ gave the disciples power to cast out evil spirits. And he said, "He who believeth on me shall do the things that I do, and even greater things than these shall he do."

something like that

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Melissa Hannay Saulnier

maybe eventually... who knows...?

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Stephen Valus

But we must also consider the possibility that the raising of Lazarus, and other stories, may be symbolic. Christ raised men's souls from the "death" of ignorance.

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Melissa Hannay Saulnier

Thats possible, i suppose...

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Stephen Valus

From the spiritual point of view, the literal raising of a person from the dead is a parlor trick. But to uplift a man's soul is the work of God, the saints, and the angels.

he brought them into a higher life

he raised them from the death of ordinary awareness into the life of the spirit

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Melissa Hannay Saulnier

Eh...

I thought it was proven he did live...

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Stephen Valus

There's conflicting evidence, theories, and claims about that. I cannot say for sure, but religion is, for me, a deeply meaningful symbolical language, a construction of the imagination of humankind, and a projection of our highest wisdom and impulses. Jesus is a symbol, but he is not an abstraction, not an airy idea, but a representation of God "made in the image of man", and fit to be an example to men. It is one thing to hear of some lofty or noble idea, and another thing to see a man bleeding and dying on a cross for the love of all creatures.

Jesus is the Logos.. The Eternal Word.. he has exercised an enormous influence on the course of history, perhaps more than anyone else, and his influence is still growing... it doesnt matter if he existed in the flesh. He is all of us. We all exist in the flesh. And we all have the potential to be filled with the grace of God.

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Stephen Valus

He is Spirit, Immortal.. Should he be located in any single point in space and time? And yet the idea of him had soemhow to enter history.

I don't know if he walked the earth or not.

I don't know if he was God.

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Melissa Hannay Saulnier

Of course he was...

God in flesh...

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Stephen Valus

But I know there is no more powerful idea in all the world than Jesus Christ

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Melissa Hannay Saulnier

I agree, but if he didnt resurrect the whole basis for christianity is gone...

and for that he must have walked the earth...

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Stephen Valus

But he does resurrect. Ask the saints. He died for them, for love of them, and was reborn in their hearts.

resurrected, not reborn

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Melissa Hannay Saulnier

He died for all of us...

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Stephen Valus

yes, that we might become saints

throught his example

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Melissa Hannay Saulnier

lofty aspirations... :)

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Stephen Valus

They were Christ's.

Of course they are lofty. ;)

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Melissa Hannay Saulnier

He has such high hopes for us...

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Stephen Valus

YES! He does.

He has such faith in us.

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Melissa Hannay Saulnier

yes... and never gives up on us... :)

no matter how we disappoint him...


[*The book referred to is "The Magus of Strovolos" by Kyriacos Markides]